My Warm Table ... with Sonia
My Warm Table ... with Sonia
Perth's secret dining experience unveiled with personal chef Valerio Fantinelli
Valerio Fantinelli is a personal chef who's created a slice of Italy by hand in his backyard. He offers Perth's most authentic Italian secret dining location. Together with his wife Anna, Valerio brings the tastes of his Nonna's kitchen, warm welcoming traditions and historic recipes to life at Flour and Fire.
Valerio shares his journey from a young, restless pizza boy in Italy to finding his innate talent, place and style as a personal chef in Australia and the enormous acts of love which helped guide his way.
Duration: 53 minutes
Links:
Flour and Fire
Gino's
Slow Food Swan Valley
Terra Madre international slow cooking festival in Italy
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· Sincere thanks to Jay (Justin) Hill for his expert sound mastering and patience! Jay, together with the incredible Eva Chye, have inspired me through their passion project If Innovation Could Talk – a YouTube vlog also promoted through LinkedIn. If you have your own ideas for a podcast or video, feel free to reach out to them through the LinkedIn page.
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My Warm Table, translated into Italian is Tavola Calda. These were the words my Papa used to describe a table of good friends, good food and good conversation. I always aim to create a tavola calda in my life and I hope this podcast encourages you to do so too!
It's a taste of Italy around My Warm Table today with a personal chef Valerio Fantinelli. Valerio has single handedly transformed his backyard at his home near Fremantle into a slice of Italy, a special alfresco dining area where he warmly welcomes guests to one of Perth's most unique, authentic and secret Italian dining experiences. Together with his wife, Anna, they run Flour and Fire, introducing you to the delicious food, traditions and stories of Valerio's homeland. I've had the privilege of sharing a very warm and welcoming table at Flour and Fire several times. And each time I'm so excited to introduce friends and family to share in Valerios enthusiasm and his love of cooking, and his love of creating beautiful and delicious taste sensations. And a highlight for me is actually hearing the stories and recipes that shaped him into the chef that he is today. And that's what I'm hoping he's going to share with us today. Valerio, thank you so much for joining me at My Warm Table.
Valerio Fantinelli:Thank you. Thank you for having me.
Sonia Nolan:Valerio, I would love to start with your journey as to you know, where did it all start for you?
Valerio Fantinelli:So my journey for cooking, look, my love for cooking anything started super early. I remember you know, as little as maybe five-six you know, always loved being involved with the grandmothers, and you know, my grandmother and the aunties and all the women in the family preparing food, you know. The first four years of my life we lived out in the farms. So there was always, was always around food, you know, it was always about - and the tomatoes are ready, you're gonna do the sauce, you're gonna pick certain vegetables, or you're gonna go and get the eggs from the chickens. That culture of food and the nurturing yourself with food has always been a big part of my life.
Sonia Nolan:That's an interesting point, the nurturing of yourself with food. So tell me more about that side of it.
Valerio Fantinelli:Yeah food has never been just about feeding yourself because you had to put something in your belly. It's always been more about you know, fueling yourself nurturing yourself. As I said, having a lot of the women around me when I was growing up, like from my grandmother, from my mum, I always felt that the act of cooking was an act of love. You know? It was like, "How can I show you how much I love you," you know, "What am I cooking today to show you how much I love you?"
Sonia Nolan:That's so true. And I know when I make my mum's you know, whatever it is that my mom cooks and I try to cook the same, my kids just know that it's not the same, they said,"you haven't put the love in it" and I said "no mind sprinkled with frustration, resentment and I'm really really busy. That's what you can taste in my cooking." But in Nonnas, whenever Nonna makes something, oh gosh, it's totally, totally love is the main ingredient.
Valerio Fantinelli:Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And then I think apart from the love, the nurturing, I think it's really deep understanding of how much fresh and good food makes a difference in your health in your - even just in your daily energy, doing daily tasks.
Sonia Nolan:Tell me about some of the things you were growing when you were younger. You said the tomatoes and what other vegetables did you grow in your farm growing up?
Valerio Fantinelli:I remember everything. Zucchini, capsicums, beans, peas, pumpkins, everything. Lots of animals as well as they had ducks, chickens, almost three or four pigs every year. And was it really communal, like the street was also communal, there was then- had a few more chickens, who was doing the milk and cheese and you know, you exchange everything. And like the three or four pigs a year the pepe used to do it, the owner of the farm. You know, we always get like maybe 15 people coming over and you know the sausages for everyone.
Sonia Nolan:So there's really that community wasn't it? It was just a family, extended family where everybody pitched in and did something special.
Valerio Fantinelli:Yeah, it was a proper village culture. I've been through stages where you know, when you younger sometimes get frustrated with it. But now that I'm older, I realised that it is actually, I think it's what we're missing in today's society. The village in support from other villages, like the saying goes, you know, "takes a village to raise a child." Yeah and there's - I feel a lot more isolated now than I did when I was in a village like that for sure.
Sonia Nolan:So that's where it all started, in the village. Everybody pitching in and you were raised around fresh produce and the love of your Nonna's cooking and your Mama's cooking.
Valerio Fantinelli:I will say so. I would say that's yeah, that's the seeds, you know. And then growing up in my teenage years, I never thought that I was going to be a chef, ever. You know, you got - in the younger years my dream has always been to be a racecar driver.
Sonia Nolan:A racecar driver. Mmhmm.
Valerio Fantinelli:My dad was an engineer at Honda so he got so passionate about fast cars and motorbikes and engines and speed and, and then when I came, you know, I was about 10 or 11 I think the first time that I said, I was like, no, no, that's too dangerous. So he wanted - well, he wanted me, you know, obviously his love was more on the engineering part. So he was hoping for me to follow his footsteps, right? Yeah, I was always been more of a daring, adrenaline fueled kind of guy.
Sonia Nolan:So how do you translate that into your cooking? So maybe I wonder whether there's a link with you know, the sort of, the daring and the, you know, sort of experience of doing something a little bit different? Has that translated into your cooking do you think?
Valerio Fantinelli:I think a little bit to a certain degree, you know, I do like to put my own twist into recipes and stuff. In the cooking, I think, yeah, I think I play a little bit more safe in the cooking than probably my daring side would. I'm very - I'm a little bit more daring with mixing techniques, I would say, rather than flavours.
Sonia Nolan:Okay, so tell me about that.
Valerio Fantinelli:So you've tried some of my dishes. I like to, sometimes to use like three or four techniques just to bring out different aspects of one ingredient. I think one of the ones you tried was with the cabbage. So I steam first, and then it's pickled, and then he's roasted on coals. So you really get all different aspects on the same ingredient.
Sonia Nolan:Yeah and that's one of the things that really intrigues me and I just think, wow, every time you cook something, Valerio. And then you explain to us, you know, so that the model of the way that you run your dining experience is that you you welcome us into your backyard, and this beautiful slice of Italy that you've created by hand in there, and then you, you know, you introduce us to little dishes along the way and explain to us what they are and how they've been made and where they fit in the whole map of Italy, the geography and what the history so, you know, we'll talk more about that in a moment. But what has always just blown me away is you say, "Well, this is you know, cabbage and what I've done is I've done this, and then I've done this, and then I've done that," and it's just like so much work has gone into the dish that you're presenting.
Valerio Fantinelli:I think this kind of concept has matured in my later years in cooking, one of my greatest inspiration is Niko Romito, which is a chef from Abruzzo. And he talks a lot about simplicity, simplicity in what you use, but then articulate the simplicity to get real complex flavours. So that's why like the carrot soup, you've probably heard as well, where you know, it's just one ingredient. But once again, using all the different techniques, you get all these different complex flavours through it. Something that really catches me and represents a lot the culture that I was talking about, you know what it's all about the fresh ingredients. And then what can you do as a chef to make that come up?
Sonia Nolan:Take us back to racing cars want-to-be Valerio as a teenager. So tell me then how did you become a chef? And also, how did you end up here in Australia. So take us back to that time and to your journey.
Valerio Fantinelli:The first introduction to cooking for me was when I was 14. I needed some extra cash. I was always very independent. And I wanted to go travelling around Italy when I was 15. If I could have I would have gone live by myself and I was 14. Look, yeah, what happened more, so I needed some extra money. So I started being a delivery driver, or rider, so on the little mopeds, delivering pizzas. And I loved it. So good. And then one night, the guy that ran the pizza shop, injured himself, and so he rings me up, I started work by six 6/6:30. Rings me up at about three o'clock and he says "oh, can you come a bit early into work tonight?" I say, "Yeah, sure. No worries. Everything okay?" He goes "oh look, I just need you to give me a hand." I said"Okay. Easy." So I got there a bit early and he goes, "Oh, you're gonna do pizzas tonight." I said, "What?"
Sonia Nolan:So you're 14.
Valerio Fantinelli:I was 14. And he said "Oh, you'll be fine. I injured my arm, you just stand next to me. We do it together. Don't worry". And yeah, so then I started making pizzas and then loved it. About maybe another three or four weeks after that, I was doing pizzas on it almost every night in. He goes, "Oh, you know, I have to tell you something else." I said, "Oh, what's going on?" He goes, "I sold the pizza shop." And I was you know, I thought, "oh no, that's bad news. You know, I have to go look for another job." And he's like, well, actually, "what I had to tell you is that I sold you with the shop."
Sonia Nolan:Comes with this really great pizza maker.
Valerio Fantinelli:Yeah, "the guy that bought the shop needs a pizza chef and I say that you could do it."
Sonia Nolan:So you're still 14.
Valerio Fantinelli:I'm still 14 in this stage yeah, and I said"oh, fantastic." And then he goes, "I don't think they'll pay$200 more." I'm like going,"Oh!" And the new guy, Peppino. We're still really good friends now, the new guy bought the pizza place. He was super enthusiastic, had businesses before. We went from doing like 30 or 40 pizzas a night to 100 a night and 150 on a weekend. Yeah, super busy. Started making my own pizzas, working through the menu and it was a lot of fun.
Sonia Nolan:So you got to decide which ingredients went on the pizza and just sort of change it up a little bit?
Valerio Fantinelli:Change it up. We make the whole new - you know, we had the classic ones that you had to have in Italy and then we had our own signature pizzas.
Sonia Nolan:Okay, big question. Do you put pineapple on a pizza?
Valerio Fantinelli:Never.
Sonia Nolan:That's such an Italian answer.
Valerio Fantinelli:I learned to appreciate it now after 20 years in Australia, and I must say that on some pizzas, I think it's nice. But it Italy you never heard of it.
Sonia Nolan:It's really just not a thing in Italy, is it? No, no hilarious. Okay, so that wasn't one of your crazy inventions then, putting pineapple on the pizza when you were redesigning the menu.
Valerio Fantinelli:No, no, no. One of my favourite ones that I still do sometimes and was a big seller, we used to do one with crescenza, which is like cream cheese, so no sauce, just the cream cheese, buffalo mozzarella, and then when it comes out the oven, fresh slice of bresaola, sliced truffle, and one rocket.
Sonia Nolan:Wow, that sounds delicious. That's a good one.
Valerio Fantinelli:That's when I started cooking in the woodfire oven as well like doing different meats. And then, you know, like roasted meats and slice them put them on pizza.
Sonia Nolan:How long did you spend there?
Valerio Fantinelli:Like three years? On and off, I left a couple of times. In the summer I would leave and go and work in a hotel.
Sonia Nolan:What did you do there? Did you cook there? Or were you...
Valerio Fantinelli:No. Over there I did heaps of stuff. Lifesaving in the swimming pool. Yeah. Electrician help, plumbing help, reception boy, you know, like when you get the luggage for the people upstairs, that was great.
Sonia Nolan:There's so many life skills within that aren't
Valerio Fantinelli:It was great, really good experience. there? There I met Claudio , which he was the head chef on the five star restaurant there, was such an inspiring guy. You know, I started thinking about, well, maybe, maybe this could be something I want to do. And then finish high school, just, and I decided to try uni. I didn't really start it. But I did stuff-
Sonia Nolan:You turned up at university.
Valerio Fantinelli:I turned up at university, to go and study economy of tourism, it's called. Which sounded great, read a couple of books, never sat an exam.
Sonia Nolan:You're pretty much sort of learning on the job for that sort of career, weren't you in some ways?
Valerio Fantinelli:I was, but I just thought, you know, growing up with the kind of culture where it's - they make believe that you have to be at schooling, you do need a certificate and you have to show something for yourself, which you know, I'm sure it's true on some degree. But I don't think that changes your life that deeply if you really show who you are and what you want to do. After university, which wasn't going well, my mum kind of like put a foot down, she said"Alright, decide what you're going to do. I can't stand having you like this."
Sonia Nolan:I think that's a that's a normal cry for most mothers of young sons or young, you know, sort of adult sons. It's a tricky one.
Valerio Fantinelli:Is it? Yeah, I can totally see now that I'm a parent, I can totally understand where she was coming from, not as much back then. So I said,"That's it, I'm leaving." And I had no idea that I was going to come to Australia. I'd been travelling in South America before and then around Europe for a little bit of work experience as well. And then, so the day that I had the massive argument with my mum, it was on a Tuesday morning I'll never forget. And I went to a travel agency, and I said "oh, look, I want to go to Australia," and she goes "Oh, we've got an offer for Perth." And I said "I want to go to Australia." She's goes,"It is in Australia."
Sonia Nolan:So you were thinking the Sydney Harbour Bridge.
Valerio Fantinelli:I was thinking Melbourne, Sydney, and she said "its the most isolated city in the world and in Western Australia and blah, blah, blah." And I was like "Oh, it's perfect."
Sonia Nolan:Perfect. No one will find me there.
Valerio Fantinelli:"When is the ticket for? And she goes,"Thursday." I said "great, I'll get it."
Sonia Nolan:This was Tuesday.
Valerio Fantinelli:And didn't tell anyone. No one knew when I went - most of my friends, I probably told a couple of really good friends. Yeah, Thursday, I was on the plane.
Sonia Nolan:How old were you then?
Valerio Fantinelli:I would have been 19.
Sonia Nolan:19
Valerio Fantinelli:Yeah, I came with a working holiday visa. Didn't know anyone. Didn't really know that much English, yeah it was very interesting.
Sonia Nolan:Wasn't it just? So where did you go, like did you have somewhere to stay when you arrived?
Valerio Fantinelli:No. So I landed, and I'm going on a taxi and I said to the taxi driver"Look, just take me somewhere with lots of Italian restaurants near the beach." I just like to be near the beach. And he took me to Fremantle and the Essex street backpackers, that was the only time in my life that I stayed in a backpacker. First and last.
Sonia Nolan:First and last, gosh what a culture shock for you.
Valerio Fantinelli:Oh, oh my god, I remember I slept with my shoes, fully dressed with my hoodie on, couldn't even shower in the morning. I just - it was so different from my mum's
Sonia Nolan:Of course it was. But you didn't second guess your decision?
Valerio Fantinelli:No, no, no. I was sure. Look I did, you know as I said, I did travel before but you know I've been in hotels in Mexico that were cleaner than backpacker.
Sonia Nolan:So where did you go from there?
Valerio Fantinelli:The morning after I went for a coffee at Ginos. And I have overheard a guy sitting in a table next to me, he was speaking English, you know? And he was complaining that his pizza chef just left.
Sonia Nolan:Oh my goodness. It just said handed to you on a platter, hey?
Valerio Fantinelli:And then I said "look, it's your lucky day. I just landed from Italy. And I'm in pizza chef." And they laughed and this guy, Dino, Dino is now the Godfather and my son, so we're still really good friends. Yeah, he got me into, the same day in the afternoon said "come at this time" I did a bit of a trial, did the pizza in front of him, and he said"Alright, you start tonight." Yeah. It was as challenging with the language at first. He asked me, "Do you speak English?" I was like, "Eh..." And so the first night was a bit of a tragedy, he had to come out the back, I was making a few mistakes. Some of the - some of the ingredients I knew, but a lot, I had no idea.
Sonia Nolan:Oh of course. So you are getting the orders, which are written in English. And so you're supposed to make a pizza where it just looks -
Valerio Fantinelli:The menu was like they had pizzas numbers. So from 1to 24, I'm pretty sure there was there. And you know, there was a lot of the Italian ones that I could understand. But then I've got a few orders right in the midst of time. When he was like, you know, say"number 22 with no anchovies, plus mushroom, plus this." And I was like "oh, lets try." Yeah. So then some of the waitors came back and was like "Oh, blah, blah, blah, blah." And I was like....
Sonia Nolan:Yeah, "I non capisce. You look angry, but I'm not sure why."
Valerio Fantinelli:Yeah, so you know, he had to step up, come behind the pizza section and help us out to sort it out. And then the day after he did only the stickers and put them on the containers with the name of the ingredients in English. So we know.
Sonia Nolan:Wonderful.
Valerio Fantinelli:Because the other pizza chef, Yano he was a Slovakian boy. And he couldn't speak a word of English either. So our communication was very interesting. I was sweating in Italian and he was sweating in Slovakian. Try make 200 pizzas tonight, it was interesting.
Sonia Nolan:Okay, so from pizza chef in Fremantle. Then what happened?
Valerio Fantinelli:Then, look after a year here, I had to go back to Italy, because my working holiday visa expired. And within the time, I didn't manage to get a sponsorship or anything. So I had to go back to Italy and organise a few more paperworks. And I still wasn't sure if I was gonna stay here and go back. Yeah, I'm back in 2001 then January 2002 is when they changed the Euro for the whole of Europe.
Sonia Nolan:Oh, yes, they did. Yes.
Valerio Fantinelli:And when I first went back I thought, oh you know, I did the experience, I'm probably going to stay in Italy, but it was the worst - probably that was the worst 18 months of my life was just horrible.
Sonia Nolan:It was a difficult time in Italy, when all of that changed wasn't it?
Valerio Fantinelli:It was messy. I went back to work with Peppino at the pizza shop for a little while. But yeah, I had a couple of dramas with good friends and all my friends kind of changed a little bit. And so there was a lot of discontent lets put it this way. And yeah, it was just really - I was depressed all the time. Once again, my mum, she said "What are you gonna do with your life?" Like, "Mum. You tell me. What should I do?"
Sonia Nolan:Great question. Now, I just want to go back to your poor mother, who you had an argument with her on the Tuesday and then by Thursday, you're on a plane heading into Australia. When did she know that you were doing this?
Valerio Fantinelli:I told her, I went back and I said "Mum, I bought a ticket. I'm going to Australia." And I don't think she said anything to reply. As hard as it was, she reckons it's the best decision I've ever made for my life. Which is true. The second time I think for my mum was even harder because I think the first time that I left, she knew it was going to be an experience and I just think she was happy as angry and upset that she was I think she knew it was gonna be good for me. And but the second time, I think it wasn't, you know, I call it an extreme act of love. You know, she knew that I wasn't going to have a good life if I stayed there, and she knew how happy I was over here. So she paid for my ticket that time, I had - I was totally broke. I spent all my money and so she paid for my ticket. She took me to Rome, and literally put me on the plane. It was it was hard. But never look back.
Sonia Nolan:So your second time you came to Australia, what sort of work away did you do this time?
Valerio Fantinelli:I came back straightaway the first night, you know, I went and saw Dino straightaway and I think he cried as well when he saw me, he couldn't believe it. I didn't tell him I was coming back and always said, "You got a place here anytime you want." At this stage he was working, he wasn't working Freo anymore. He had the restaurant in South Perth called Sopranos?
Sonia Nolan:Oh, yes. Yes. Yes. Sopranos is a well loved institution, really. Yes.
Valerio Fantinelli:And yes, I was doing - when I first came back, as I said, I was totally broke. I went and stayed rent free at a friends of mine. And I said, "Oh, I'll pay you back." So I was accumulating all debts. And so I was working really hard. I think the first four months or maybe more, I was working seven days a week. So I was doing breakfast and lunch at Falduzzi's in South Freo. And then three nights, three or four nights at Sopranos. And then the other three or four nights in another place in Fremantle on the floor. I was doing waitering.
Sonia Nolan:And they're late nights, aren't they? They're all late nights and busy and physical work.
Valerio Fantinelli:Yeah it was full on. Yeah, yeah, I just I needed to get my mind off things. And I needed to earn a lot of money. So I was like,"Let's do it."
Sonia Nolan:So you were working crazy hours every single night and building up new skills again.
Valerio Fantinelli:Yeah, definitely. I really had a bit more of - really wanted to learn a lot more about front of the house. So that's why I was doing a bit of waitering, which I loved it. I really enjoyed customer contact, you know, the, you know, just talking with people and understanding the front of house. That's when I met, Anna, around the time.
Sonia Nolan:What was Anna doing? Was she working with you?
Valerio Fantinelli:No, no, no. She was...I see her the first time that I was here and so two years before just passing on the street. She used to go Gino's with the sisters. And then, yeah, so it took me about three months to get to know. The second time I saw her again. I was like, "Oh my God. That's her again."
Sonia Nolan:She's gonna love listening to this.
Valerio Fantinelli:Yeah no, she knows the story, she loves the story. It's an amazing story. But I finish and tell you about my voyage in cooking around the time, I started working with another Slovakian guy called Rusty. And he had a second job working with Vince, which had in the time was one of the first ones that started Melbourne woodfire oven pizzas to do events and stuff. He needed a pizza chef, so I went and worked with him. And it was a massive influence on my career, Vince. He then got me a job at Savinis in Mt Lawley. And that's when we started me and him kind of like worked together. And we did a new menu mainly from the woodfire oven and so there was fish and roasts and we used to do most cooking from the woodfire oven and was very successful, busy place and I absolutely loved it.
Sonia Nolan:There's a lot of people with pizza ovens in their backyards. Can you give us a tip? How do we maximise and do the best with a pizza oven or a woodfired oven? What are some top tips?
Valerio Fantinelli:Top tips. Okay, so first of all understanding your oven, so every ovenis slightly different. So playing around with the different temperatures you know like understand when is it really hot, when it's a medium temperature? Try different foods, you know, try and use you know your jarra or your pines, I love nuts trees or you know apple trees, olive trees to get a different flame, slightly different smell obviously when it burns.
Sonia Nolan:Would you mix woods? You'd mix woods?
Valerio Fantinelli:Yep. Normally my go to mix it's normally jarra and white gum and cherry wood but yeah, I think you know like everything use it as much as possible and have fun with it. I will start with you know, the easiest stuff. Normally I will recommend pizza to go as high as possible you know get the whole have it nice and white on the roof. You know when it's- when the roof on the oven is all white that means it's the highest temperature it will go to so, cook your pizzas really high, do a nice Italian style. But once you've done your pizzas, you know, practice with your roasts and you know all the other beautiful bakes and things you can do in it. The beginning I really liked moving around. I always had three or four different jobs in different restaurants until I went and worked Valdarno a place in Dalkeith, a small Italian style Trattoria. It was nice but very Trattoria stuff, nothing fancy. I was extremely busy, super busy. And that was my first proper kitchen job. So no oven and just pans and grill. And then I went and did the short bit of experience at Frazers, Kings Park.
Sonia Nolan:Yes. And I guess a lot of the other experiences that you had, then were reaffirming for you, you know, if you didn't like working in a particular kitchen, it sort of reaffirmed for you, this is what I don't want. So sometimes I know my own career, you know, working somewhere where it's just nothing like you imagined or with people that you don't
Valerio Fantinelli:Oh, absolutely. And for me, it was normally sort of hang out with and doing work that you wanted to try but then you think, no, that's actually not what I want to do. They're actually really shaping experiences to help you decide what you don't want to do, which is sometimes equally as valuable as those amazing experiences, which show you what you really do want to do. like, the realisation of that work doesn't have to be suffering. You know, I was, I heard someone saying it the other day, you know, that we grew up with this thing where you know, you're gonna study hard, you're gonna work hard, but I never heard growing up, you know, "you're gonna work lovingly, you're gonna study passionately," you know, I was all just having to do with hard, it's gonna be hard. You know, so I always thought, you know, you're gonna work long hours, you're gonna have fun, and it's gonna be hard because you have to.
Sonia Nolan:And you're not supposed to like it. Yeah that's a really good way to look at it. Yeah, exactly. So now, you know, would you say that you're working hard, but you're working passionately, aren't you?
Valerio Fantinelli:Absolutely, you know, it doesn't - I work long hours. But it feels like it's part of my life, it feels like, yeah, I'm just expressing myself other than going to do a task that I'm required to do just to make some money.
Sonia Nolan:When did you decide to start Flour and Fire?
Valerio Fantinelli:So after Valdarno, the restaurant in Dalkeith, I had a full on breakdown. Well, by the stage, my second child was born, my daughter. And it was just super stressful. It was a really busy place. I wasn't home much. And so I just thought, you know what, I need a complete change of everything. This thing of driving kept coming into my head. Obviously, I couldn't do a racecar driving anymore. So I went to drive buses instead.
Sonia Nolan:Did you really? You were a bus driver? You're full of surprises.
Valerio Fantinelli:I did yeah. For Transperth, I actually really enjoyed it. I thought it was great. For me, this was the first time ever, first of all, and then I had the job sitting down.
Sonia Nolan:There's a lot to be said for that.
Valerio Fantinelli:It was so different, like the first week, honestly, I would go home. And I wouldn't - I had to stand up. My bum was so sore. It was incredible. Like it's reshaped my whole legs and it was just incredible. I never thought it was gonna be that intense. And then I love the fact that I didn't have to think, like, you know, I didn't have to think but once you're driving...
Sonia Nolan:Yeah, it's not thinking about safety. And you're thinking about where you need to go. It's different.
Valerio Fantinelli:You can - I started doing a lot of thinking on what I wanted to do. And you know, I could do a lot of reading I almost had it book with me, every time you stop, you have two minutes, you know, read the book. And it's one of those jobs when nothing is ever your problem ever, you know, the bus breaks down, you stop, ring up the radio "Oh, the bus broke down." "Oh, don't worry, stay there we'll come and fix it."
Sonia Nolan:"Okay, I'll read my book."
Valerio Fantinelli:Yeah, I'll read my book. And if you follow the rules, which, you know, simple, I would imagine you just, you know, have the nice attitude. Honestly, it's one of those jobs, you finish, you close, turn the bus off and it's done. You don't have to think about it, you know, "Oh, I have to go to this." The big thing was that every minute overtime was paid. Saturday, time and a half, Sunday double time, public holiday triple time.
Sonia Nolan:Unheard of for where you were coming from.
Valerio Fantinelli:Yeah and you can accrue your - you can accrue Yeah. your holidays. So instead of getting paid overtime, they can go towards your holidays and up to six weeks. So we had, for two years, went to Italy for six weeks and you're still getting paid. And while I was driving the buses, which obviously you know, as I said, thinking is tough. I always knew that cooking was my patient. I've got approached by Katrina Lang, which at the time she had a Taste of Bailingup in the shop down in Bailingup. And then she organised a dinner, it was a long table dinner with some amazing chefs. Guy Jefferies from Millbrook, which won chef of the year. Joel Valvasory from Lulu, Sam Ward, he won chef of the year as well. Mitch Mitchell, Sophie Budd, amazing lineup. So I was like why are you calling me?
Sonia Nolan:I'm a bus driver.
Valerio Fantinelli:What do I have to do with this?
Sonia Nolan:And where did she hear from you?
Valerio Fantinelli:Oh through Slow Food. So when I was in my
Sonia Nolan:Oh okay, women only vegan dinner. cooking days through Vince, I was part of the Slow Food Committee in Perth. And that's when I first met her. And we actually went to Italy together to Terranale. Big festival over there. Yeah. So she knew how passionate I was about culture, and you know, sourcing good ingredients and good food. So she wanted me on the team and it was fantastic. And then so I did the first long table dinner in Bailingup, which was great
Valerio Fantinelli:I didn't know any vegan guys. success. And then after that, I was asked to do another event in a Subiaco market. We - Sophie Budd and Simon Bryant was there, Simon Bryant was the...yeah had this TV show with Maggie Beer so a bit of a celebrity chef, great guy. And anyway, I cook the porchetta for the lunch and of sides. After the event. You
Sonia Nolan:Otherwise, you would have opened up to the men know, we went back and we went back to someone's house. And I took Simon with me in thecar and he asked me "so where do you work now?" I said, "Oh, I'm a bus driver." And he just lost it. And he laughed. And he goes,"No, I'm serious, where do you work?" I said, "I'm a bus driver." He's, "Nah, you're not." And he said, "Oh, you have to get back in the kitchen, you have to be in the kitchen." So I decided to start Flour and Fire which at the time was just mobile catering. So I was still driving buses, and I started the business. So then it was starting to get, I wouldn't say super busy but quite common that I had to take too much time off the buses. So I left the bus jobs and I was doing a little bit of handyman with my brother in law and catering. And then in 2017, I finished and built the kitchen at home. By the stage, it was busy like I was signing on every weekend. And then 2018 I think we did the first dinner at home. So at this stage was- while I was doing the buses when I finished and fill all the garden, which was always meant to be just for us and friends. Everyone that came was like, "oh my god, this is amazing. You gonna- you're gonna share this with people, why don't you to do events? Why don't you do cooking as well. classes?" You know, everyone had so many of ideas. And so we decided to do this...was a women only vegan dinner.
Valerio Fantinelli:Probably. But yeah, it was Anna and a few of her friends and mums homeschool and stuff like that. And it was great. Yeah, everyone loved it. And then I did a few other dinners for friends. Yeah, before you knew it was, it was pretty quick, then the word spread. And I had people sending me messages. And you know, we want to come from dinner. So 2018 I was still doing mainly catering and few dinners. And then 2019 I changed the website. And we started you know, releasing bookings to come for dinner and spring was fully booked, summer was fully booked and all the months fully booked, and I thought "Oh wow." I think this is going to be good. And then yeah, the last two years, it's been crazy.
Sonia Nolan:It's so hard to get in to Flour and Fire now, oh gosh, I get excited when I actually get a spot to come.
Valerio Fantinelli:It is. I feel bad sometimes, you know, I would like to fit more people or get more people to come and experience it. But adding then you know, I don't want to lose the exclusivity.
Sonia Nolan:Just explaining your business model. So you basically have 12 people maximum at a time. So it's basically friends or family that you book for your family and friends as in if I were to book I book the whole 12 out and bring my family and friends along. And then you've got a couple of menus to choose from. And and then walk us through when we walk in and how you greet us and some of the stories that you tell, Valerio, because it's just such a beautiful experience.
Valerio Fantinelli:As you said, you know, I'm wanting to keep it to just one group rather than 12 different seats. So we have the minimum six and maximum of 12. And yeah, for me, the whole experience has always been about, it's about me, you know. I have to be honest.
Sonia Nolan:And that's what we love about it. That's what we
Valerio Fantinelli:I just want people to come and experience love about it. you know, my house, my stories, my culture, and my interpretation, you know, and come and feel my love, you know, come in and see why I'm so passionate about this and why I
Sonia Nolan:And then you start telling us some of your stories, love feeding people. There's a strong, innate, obviously part of me in nurturing people with food. And that's, I think, like we said earlier picked up from my grandmother from my mum it's always been like there, very caring. It's kind of like, I'll feel the shock in people, sometimes, because everyone that comes, I think, sometimes they expect a little bit more of a commercial approach, or I don't know, if they are looking for an exclusive event where it's a little bit more, you know, to be more build up, I try and keep it very natural and very authentic. When people come through, you know, this is who I am, this is what we do and I hope you enjoy it. You think, I'm trying to take the current mood from the beginning. It's not very formal. So the first couple hours of the event when you walk in, we don't sit at the table, we're standing up, casual seating around the apperativo table. To you know, even just soften up a little bit more into the place and have it be more of an open conversations. which I just loved, you know, and you never disappoint, you know, with some of the stories that you start telling about, you know, you growing up and the particular dishes that you're making, and can you share some of those stories without spoiling a surprise of anyone who will come?
Valerio Fantinelli:I'll tell you a story. And so it's, it's
Sonia Nolan:I don't think you've told me - no, I haven't interesting, you know, sometimes you get in conversations with people where, you know, especially in Italy, there's so many different stories and traditions, you know, sometimes from 20 kilometres apart, you hear a totally different story, but I love food history, I do quite a bit of reading. Do my own researches and my favourite part though, it's more than what heard that one. Oh, good, a new one, go on you read in the books. It's obviously the oral stories, you know, the ones that are disappearing. And sometimes, you know, I'm bringing things that I heard growing up, sometimes our research, especially in Italy, intimate is a funny place, you know, there's some really good sources sometimes you can get lost a little bit. One of my favourite stories is the egg and cheese balls from the Pallotte Cacio.
Valerio Fantinelli:So the cheese and egg balls a lot Pallotte Cacio but they're typical from Abruzzo. And it was actually apparently the first ever written down recipe. We go
Sonia Nolan:Unified. back to the beginning of the 1800s or so even before Italy was actually-
Valerio Fantinelli:Unified. And so Abruzzo has always been a shepherd-
Sonia Nolan:Agricultural sort of area.
Valerio Fantinelli:Agricultural, especially up in the mountains and so the story goes that basically when and during the day the shepherds would pack - we bring lunch with them back in those days would be a piece of cheese and some bread and they put it in the pockets and they go off with the today you know sometimes it's to mine, when they come back home they will empty their pockets on the table, you know, to get the crumbs on the cheese and and the bread and the wife will mix them with egg and they fry them and that's how the recipe became about.
Sonia Nolan:There you go.
Valerio Fantinelli:So very, very extremely poor cooking.
Sonia Nolan:But very tasty.
Valerio Fantinelli:Very tasty. I don't keep the bread and cheese in my pockets but. Not very tasty.
Sonia Nolan:Good that you clarified that. So you don't go that authentic. Tell us about the bread because the breads the one that I just love, the Pompeii bread
Valerio Fantinelli:Oh the Pompeii bread. Yes. I love the bread. One day look, I love Pompeii. Pompeii you know it was a gourmet catalogue on the Roman Empire. And they used to do so many different kinds of breads. And this particular one that I do, it's a hundred percent hydration. So it means one kilo of flour to one litre of water and it's made by absorption so you don't actually mix the dough, you just put the flour in a bowl, pour the water on top and just let it sit, takes a couple hours and then when it's cooked I just scoop it out of the bowl and put it into a terracotta pot. Cook then woodfire oven and as you get the super crunchy on the outside and really, really soft and spongey on the inside and it's got the nice smoky flavour. Yeah, it's called Artologamus.
Sonia Nolan:So how old is that recipe?
Valerio Fantinelli:So we're looking at you know, probably 2400 years old.
Sonia Nolan:Wow. Valerio, one of the other things that's really fun about your place there is that there are a lot of artefacts if you like of your childhood there. And you know you've got some of the, you know, cooking equipment that your Nonna would use and you know, you were actually you know, one of the most important things that you're on the left you was...
Valerio Fantinelli:Oh, the smacking spoon.
Sonia Nolan:The smacking spoon. The wooden spoon.
Valerio Fantinelli:Yeah, absolutely love that one. We always loved it. Even you know, before I decided to build the kitchen outside, I always had this fascination, I loved copper, wooden tools, old tools, always, always loved it, I think is the, you know, the tell a story in itself. Yeah, so I've got showing in my kitchen one of the centrepieces is my Nonna's smacking spoon, which towards the end - she obviously did a lot, a lot of cooking with it, you can see it, but towards the end, it was purposely used for smacking.
Sonia Nolan:That was the only reason it was used.
Valerio Fantinelli:Yeah, it wasn't hard to select. So it was- it's 16 grandkids and I was the one.
Sonia Nolan:And there was no question about the fact that you deserved it.
Valerio Fantinelli:No there was no doubt.
Sonia Nolan:Your cooking is inspired from so many different parts of Italy. And it's also from lots of different historical times of Italy as well. And I think that's one of the things that makes your experience at Flower and Fire so special for people because then you, as I said earlier, you know, you explain the history of it, and the archaeology of it. And it just makes it for such an interesting, gastronomic, you know, feast, really, and I'm not using those terms loosely, either, because it is, it's just so much fun, and you come away just knowing so much more about the food you're eating.
Valerio Fantinelli:I think it's an important part. And like I said before, I think for me, you know, the oral tradition, and their connection with the food is disappearing in today's culture. It's - I think it's so awesome to know, you know, when I sit at the restaurant sometimes, you know, I want to know why you're doing this dish, you know, what was the idea. Why Italians love tomatoes, so much. Or, you know, why is this pasta shaped in a certain way other than another way. I've always been fascinated about these kind of stories. And you know, and sometimes it's, you know, months and months of study to come up with a recipe and sometimes its just by mistake. And I think that as I said, for me, we go back to the connection, you know, if you can connect with what you're eating in the history behind them, and it just makes it a total different experience.
Sonia Nolan:And you grow a lot of what you serve in your backyard, or you've got a farm down south as well now? Oh, yeah. Very nice.
Valerio Fantinelli:Yeah look we, you know, I wouldn't say.... a little bit, so from the garden at home, we get all the herbs, We got a chinotto tree as well. sometimes potatoes, I had cherry tomatoes, I was successful with bits - oh, greens, week get the radicchio, and rappa from the garden. And we got a farm in Waroona now. At the moment down there we got the citruses, just went picked lemons actually last week. For limoncello.
Sonia Nolan:Chinotto. I love chinotto. Oh, my goodness. That's an acquired taste. A lot of people don't like chinotto.
Valerio Fantinelli:Sour orange. Yeah, I love it. It's delicious. Yeah, so the plan is to do most of growing down there.
Sonia Nolan:So only citrus or you don't have animals, is that your plan or...?
Valerio Fantinelli:No animals. No, and it's vegan. And look animals, because we're the only one on the farm, there's a friend of mine who lives down there and animals definitely not his thing. And it's, you know, takes a lot to look after animals properly. And I don't know if I could do it myself, either, to grow in anyone and then kill it. I've done it, I've done a here as well. Anna's uncle used to do his own pigs. I don't know if I'm getting softer with age. I don't know, it's a - I tell you what, being with Anna the last 15 years, we've been together 20 years, but the last 15 years that she has been vegan. You know, doing so much reading, listening to vegan people. I just got a different, completely different outlook on what I used to, you know, even when I serve meat, it's with a different approach.
Sonia Nolan:And I remember that because I remember when you did serve, I think it was a prosciutto as part of one of the entrees. And you know, you really talked about where this came from. And you know, it was almost to the point where we knew the name of the pig. That would have been-
Valerio Fantinelli:Yeah, look when the pig and goats, and I used to have Anthea. She was an absolutely amazing farmer. She's not farming anymore at the moment. I still like to have the direct contact with farmers. But I think that it's important, you know, like sometimes looking at it from a vegan point of view you think oh, you know, the animal was really happy. And I was like, "Oh my God that's worse. You killed the happy one. Why didn't you kill the miserable one." For me, you know, it comes back down to respect, you know, I can't imagine myself being a vegan chef, imagine like being a painter, and you can use certain colours, you know, it's - and especially for the kind of cooking, regional cooking that I like to do, I think would be challenging for myself, and just limitating more than anything. So if I do choose to serve animals, I'm really careful when they come from. And I'm just like to make people understand that, you know, you're still eating a living being, you eating his energy eating - someone cried, because this is life, you know, why are we so disconnected from it now, that it sounds weird even saying it, but it is true. You know.
Sonia Nolan:I think the key word you've used in all of that,
Valerio Fantinelli:Thank you. It's always different to hear it Valerio, is respect. And that's something that really comes through in everything that you do is that respect for the animal and the food and the way that you create it, the respect for your traditions, respect for the story of food and respect for the definitely respect for the people that come and, and from someone else, you know, like, I have so many doubts enjoy it. So I just, you know, there's so much to love about what you're doing. about what I do. And I think it's normal to have self doubt. But yeah, to hear it from customers and people that appreciate it's always, it's always nice to see it in a different light and see what you can give to people. Yeah, so
Sonia Nolan:I guess one big question for you, knowing that thank you. your road from when you were 14 and first started working in the pizza shop, initially and your road, then to come into Australia and all the different experiences that you've had even you know, to driving a bus. What would you tell 19 year old Valerio now that you've had all of these experiences, and you know, you're a father and you run your own business, what would you tell 19 year old Valerio?
Valerio Fantinelli:It is a big question, isn't it? I would tell him to be more patient. And to spend more time understanding all he really wants to be. Rather than get caught up into listening to what culture says, you know, what you see on TV, look in yourself, spend more time in nature, be patient, and understand yourself. But first of all, I would say love yourself.
Sonia Nolan:That's a big one, isn't it?
Valerio Fantinelli:That's a big, big one. It stuffed me up all the time. I'm getting better. I didn't even know what love yourself was, you know, like, the meaning of it like,"What do you mean love yourself?" You know, gosh it's sad. But yeah, it's, it's a big exercise, which shouldn't be taken lightly. I think it's an integral part of life. It's probably, I would say, the first thing you should do when you wake up. And the last thing you should do is remind yourself how much you love yourself.
Sonia Nolan:Is that what you do?
Valerio Fantinelli:I do. Yes, I do.
Sonia Nolan:That's so important. There's so much wisdom in you, Valerio. That, you know, I'm just really enjoying unpacking today as we chat. What are some of the other wise things that you know, I guess, your journey, you know, what are some of the truths that are really true for you that you've understood? You know, obviously, we've talked about your care and respect of animals, you know, given the work that you do, and the understanding of different cultures coming from a different place, you know, what are some of the truths that you really hold true?
Valerio Fantinelli:Understanding where you come from, and the respect in connection with your roots and your family. I think that's what's been really important to understand for me. And that goes back to what I would tell to the 19 year old, you know, loving yourself means, in my opinion, loving that as well, you know, you can't, it can be rebelling against himself. And then thinking that you're gonna go out and find yourself somewhere else, you gotta really love and understand where you're coming from, to know where you want to be. You know, on a more practical way, exercise. Exercise is so important and feed yourself properly. You know, stay away from processed food, junk food, you know, we all know that but it's so easy to not do it.
Sonia Nolan:It's so true. Yes.
Valerio Fantinelli:Another big lesson, be honest with yourself, have the strength and courage to change the things that you want to change in your life. And then have as well, strength and courage and compassion, to accept the things that you can't change, nor to accept love. That's another big one. Have a lot of trust in yourself and the people around you and stay away from news.
Sonia Nolan:Stay away from the news. Yeah, gosh, that's a good
Valerio Fantinelli:And I really- well it looks that way, I one. think that it's really important, especially in the way that society is gone for younger kids might even for adults for everyone I think then it's really, really important to understand the history or culture, to understand why the world is going in a certain way. You know, it's not something that just happened in the last 20 years, you know, what we're living in today, it's been happening for the last 45 thousand years. And then a really deep understanding, which is what's missing in today's culture is that we are part on this planet, we are part of Mother Nature, we are just another animal living on this planet. We're not all that superior there everything else that happens on this planet, you know, we are a part of it. And what we should look at is what can we do with the privilege that we have to be able to communicate with each other, and change things in a way that we can actually change the environment. So rather than destroying it, making it good for future generations.
Sonia Nolan:Valerio, you have been an absolutely fabulous guest around My Warm Table today. Thank you so much for coming and, and letting us sort of be a guest at Flour and Fire in a bit of a virtual way today. But I do hope that people do take the opportunity to try and book a table with you because it is an extraordinary experience. And it's been wonderful having you here today.
Valerio Fantinelli:Thank you, Sonia, thank you so much.
Sonia Nolan:You've been listening to My Warm Table with Sonia Nolan. In Italian a Tavola Calda is a warm and welcoming table where you can share big ideas, friendship, laughter and life. So much happens around the kitchen table, and I wanted to amplify it here in this podcast. My aim is to feed your mind and soul through smart conversations with heart. No topic is off limits, but good table manners rule. I hope you'll join us each week as we set the table for my extraordinary guests who will let you feast on their deep knowledge in life experiences and wise insights. Let's keep the conversation flowing. Please subscribe to the My Warm Table podcast and share it with your friends and networks. Perhaps if they're new to podcasting, take a moment to show them how to download and subscribe so they don't miss an episode either. I'd also love you to join our community on Facebook. You'll find the group at My Warm Table podcast. Your support is very much appreciated. So that together we can eat, think and be merry.
