Brain rehab at Brightwater Oats Street a story of serendipity with Janet Wagland

Nestled in Victoria Park, Perth WA is a one-of-a-kind, world leading brain rehabilitation centre.  Janet Wagland, CEO of Brightwater Oats Street, tells us about the innovative teamwork at the centre which means clients can learn to take back their lives.

 We learn what an Occupational Therapist does and how Janet’s talent for competitive rifle shooting has seen her travel the world and represent Australia. 

 “Because if we don't have a crack and take a bit of a risk and try something different and fail and learn from that in the way we operate ourselves, how can we possibly expect people who we're supporting to go through rehabilitation related to their brain injury to do exactly that? We asked them to trust us to have a go to try something different.” Janet Wagland 

 You’ll hear:

Brightwater Care Group (2:00)

What is acquired brain injury? (5:00)

Young stroke (6:00)

Oats Street Centre history (8:00)

Graduation program and criteria (12:00)

Working as a team (16:30)

Wrap around service (18:30)

Innovation and world interest (23:00)

Student placements at Oats Street (24:00)

What is an Occupational Therapist? (25:30)

Janet’s warm table growing up (35:10)

Competition rifle shooting (37:00)

Duration: 40 minutes.

Links:

Brightwater Oats Street

Swansea Street Market

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Thank you!

Sincere thanks to Jay (Justin) Hill for his expert sound mastering and patience! Jay, together with the incredible Eva Chye, have inspired me through their passion project

Transcript

Sonia Nolan: 0:05

Nestled in a suburban street in Victoria Park Perth, Western Australia is one of the world's most innovative rehabilitation centres for people with acquired brain injury. It could be a stroke, a major car accident or fall, or another tragic and unpredictable event which changes your life in an instant. It can happen to any one of us. For those in Western Australia, we have Oats Street, a one of a kind centre which is part of the Brightwater care group, and with a care model based on the phenomenon of neuroplasticity, and understanding that the brain can rewire, change and adapt. Brightwater Oats Street is a home away from home, set around a series of houses. It's a place where clients are surrounded and supported by expert care to relearn life skills, regain their confidence and literally take back their lives as they graduate through a phased and focused programme led by Janet Wagland. Oats Street is a story of serendipity and the courage to have a crack. Janet is my guest today. She's a woman who has defied stereotypes and led her life with passion and persistence to ensure health professionals work together hand in glove for the goals of their clients. In line with the COVID protocols in place when we met up, Janet and I are wearing masks as we chat, but it certainly didn't dampen our conversation. We explored her early career as an occupational therapist, and how her OT thinking underpins the revolutionary work at the world renowned Oats Street centre. I'm Sonia Nolan. And I hope you'll learn something new as you join us for this smart conversation with heart around My Warm Table. Welcome, Janet, to My Warm Table.

Janet Wagland: 1:53

Thank you, Sonia, I'm really happy and pleased to be here.

Sonia Nolan: 1:57

I would like to understand more about what Brightwater Care Group does as a starting point.

Janet Wagland: 2:03

Brightwater Care Group is a it's a very large organisation. And it's been around since 1901, actually, and it was probably well more well known to Western Australians in the olden days when it was the Home of Peace. So Brightwater Care Group has always had a place in Perth society as a service for people with more complex needs. People who have had challenges in finding care and support from other environments. And that was originally why it was set up in 1901, to be able to provide a service for people who really had nowhere else to go, but had high and complex needs. My understanding is that one of the first clients or residents or patients or whatever they call them in 1901 was a gentleman with neuro syphilis, who was in his 40s. So our connection with people with neurological disability, our connection with people who are younger, our connection with people with very complex presentations has been part of Brightwater's DNA, since right back to that very first person who came into Brightwater at that stage, called the Home of Peace.

Sonia Nolan: 3:16

And it sounds as though Janet that in 1901, that was a really innovative approach to care for people and so that that history of innovation seems like it's been in Brightwaters DNA since the very, very beginning, because the centre that you run is one of the most innovative in the world. Now.

Janet Wagland: 3:36

That's correct. Brightwood has always been an organisation that has given innovation an opportunity. And I've been with Brightwater for over 30 years, people would think that's far too long to spend with an organisation but every time I've thought about what next something else has come up, there's always been what next, whether it's a changing role, or whether it's a new project, there's always been something challenging. And there's always been a willingness from management and across the board with with our staff to listen to new ideas, and I guess have a have a real crack at doing something that's a bit different, which to me has just kept me connected to the organisation.

Sonia Nolan: 4:14

Yeah, that's really exciting. And it is it is actually having that opportunity to have a crack at something like you said, because you need to give things a go and sometimes they don't work out. And other times, you know, there's all this incredible possibility that opens up.

Janet Wagland: 4:27

And I guess that that fits as well with the ethos around rehabilitation because if we don't have a crack and take a bit of a risk and try something different, and fail and learn from that, in the way we operate ourselves, how can we possibly expect people who we're supporting to go through rehabilitation related to their brain injury to do exactly that when that's what we asked them to do to trust us to have a go to try something different. Take a little bit of a risk and to learn from the ups and downs. So if that what works and what doesn't work?

Sonia Nolan: 5:02

Janet, can you tell me what Acquired Brain Injury actually is?

Janet Wagland: 5:05

I guess it's just what it really says. So an acquired brain injury is something that has impacted on the brain to damage it, and to then create change in brain function for the person. So that can be many different things that cause somebody to have an acquired brain injury. So of course, people almost automatically think about a traumatic brain injury. So somebody in a car accident who experiences trauma and then gets a brain injury. But we also consider that somebody who's had a stroke, either from a blood clot or from a bleed, that is also an acquired brain injury, but then we have people who have what's called anoxic damage. So maybe somebody's had a near drowning experience, or they've had a heart attack and lost oxygen to the brain. So that can cause an anoxic brain injury, then there are other just things that happened to the brain, infections, tumours, so other disease that may actually impact on the brain and make changes for the person and therefore they acquire a brain injury.

Sonia Nolan: 6:01

Oh, that's so interesting. It's so varied, absolutely, I wouldn't have thought of that great range that you've just described, I immediately went to head trauma and stroke,

Janet Wagland: 6:11

probably the most common with seeing at the moment is people with stroke. And I And over the years that I've been connected with Oats Street the number of people with stroke, have actually grown so young stroke,

Sonia Nolan: 6:23

Young Street, that's interesting. And what is what is young stroke? Or how young is young?

Janet Wagland: 6:27

young to us is under 65. So it's a bit of a big catch all.

Sonia Nolan: 6:31

Well, it's interesting, because from my perspective, in the last 18 months, I've had two very close friends who have had a bleed to the brain or a stroke at around the 50 year old mark, really young,

Janet Wagland: 6:44

it's far more common than what we think. And and really, it can impact on it, anybody. So it's not just people who lead bad lifestyle, it can be just something that happens to someone who's incredibly fit,

Sonia Nolan: 6:57

every single case would be very different, wouldn't they?

Janet Wagland: 7:00

They are they certainly are, the brain is a very complex beast, you know, we really have to think, what what makes us who we are, what makes us function the way we do, it's the brain. So the brain has potential to cause all kinds of issues for people and even simple brain injuries can actually have quite profound impact on somebody's life, because it can change their personality. It can change their skill base, it can can change the ability with that they have to connect different functions together to make them less functional. For some people. Sometimes the changes can actually be ones that may show them a whole new skill base. And so it's not necessarily that all people with brain injury find that their journey is one where they have a worse impact. We have people as well who find that they're in fact, grateful that they've had the brain injury, not many, but you know, occasionally because of those changes. And that's how complex it is you can't always assume you just have to go with the person and understand what's important to them.

Sonia Nolan: 8:03

And I think that underpins all of the philosophy of the place that you run. So tell us about the Oats Street

Janet Wagland: 8:10

So Oats Street is an interesting journey in centre, itself. It's had a serendipitous journey from the very beginning. We'd lost a more long stay rehabilitation centre in the closure of Melville rehab many, many years ago, so many people who'd gone through the old Shenton Park State rehab service would be discharged and then go on to go to Melville rehab for further care and support and engagement in vocational rehab and so forth. When Melville closed down of course, their families and the people themselves were very angry. There was nothing really left. Like all good stories. It begins at an election time, so a good time to be lobbying for things. And the state government approached our then Chief

Sonia Nolan: 8:55

and it's in Victoria Park? Executive Officer Penny Flett and asked her to look at some private hospitals to see which of them would be suitable for a brain injury rehab services, a slow stream rehab service. Penny had a look around the Oats Street private hospital which I'm told by many people I was born there or were there for minor surgery

Janet Wagland: 9:21

It is in Victoria Park. So many people have had connections with with Oats Street. She went and had a look at it. She looked at a few of the other private hospitals she told the government that Oats Street was the least likely to do what she wanted to do. And they said you know would you like it?

Sonia Nolan: 9:40

Even though it's not fit for purpose, do you want it anyway

Janet Wagland: 9:43

That's right. So basically, we took that on with some funding to do some renovations created three eight bed houses. It had a lot of outbuildings, sheds and and other small houses. They also then put and some gardens got rid of some of the the car park area. And Penny was very insistent at that stage, that it be like home, that the staff all work together to support people in the rehabilitation, and that they didn't wear uniforms that it was just very much directed by the clients. And it was to have that very domestic scale homelike feel. It was then that the beginning of I guess, straight having that multidisciplinary type of team, the beginnings of it having that feel that it needed to be domestic scale so people could learn new skills, or relearn old skills.

Sonia Nolan: 10:39

These are skills like everyday life skills?

Janet Wagland: 10:42

yes very much about everyday life skills.

Sonia Nolan: 10:45

So things like washing dishes and making your bed or showering, combing your hair ...

Janet Wagland: 10:50

Yeah, right, and then progressing on to skills like being able to go shopping, being able to cross the road. So it also has always been very much part of the Vic Park community. It's located next to Swansea Street Markets. So often for the clients and the clients now Swansea Street Markets is their first venture out into the community, they have to learn to negotiate the carpark which, which is challenging for all of us because there's a lot of comings and goings there.

Sonia Nolan: 11:21

And they're walking to

Janet Wagland: 11:23

That's right. So walking there or wheeling there being able to order what they want, whether it's a roll or buying fruit or buying meat that all happens down at the market. So for many people that that's their first foray back into the community. So we have that connection and then they they broaden out into the greater community with public transport the local TAFE you know, the trains the other shopping centres.

Sonia Nolan: 11:48

And there's there's a graduation programme among the way that Oats Street is coordinated. Now, is that right Janet? That you've got different houses and people graduate from one house to another?

Janet Wagland: 11:59

That that's correct. Would you like the story of how we ended up with that?

Sonia Nolan: 12:03

I would love the story because I do remember that, again, there was serendipity involved here. It wasn't exactly what you had planned in the first place.

Janet Wagland: 12:11

It very definitely wasn't. It was part of our learning as well, by trying something different.

Sonia Nolan: 12:17

Having a crack.

Janet Wagland: 12:18

Yeah, having a crack, definitely. So when I became the care manager at Oats Street, which was long time ago, so once I've told you, I've been here 30 years. So that was actually in 2002, we had a number of clients on the site who had become a bit stuck. So they'd been there for a number of years, they weren't moving on, they were very good at teaching new people, things that we didn't necessarily want them to be learning. And because they were with them, 24/7 and we weren't. So even though it's a 24/7 services, staff turnover, but the consistent in their life are the other people that are living there.

Sonia Nolan: 12:56

Sure, there is something that says the five people that you spend the most time with are the people that you actually become. So you have to choose those five people really, really carefully in life. I say that to my children all the time. But it's interesting that that sort of even playing out by what you're describing here,

Janet Wagland: 13:11

it very much played out, we needed to support those people to move on to the next step in their lives and their journey. Because we couldn't be in the lives forever. We weren't a permanent accommodation service, we were a rehab service. And we needed to have those beds to provide new opportunities for other people coming from the health system, and even from the community. And we also had to look at this problem of learning new tricks. I guess we didn't want people to learn this stuff. And I got together and thought, well, how are we going to solve this problem? And we thought, well, if we actually move all of the people that have been here for a long time into the end house, which was nearest the car park, then we can call that the discharge house. And so that's what we did we moved them into the into the end house, we told everybody this was now the discharge house. And much to our amazement, people started moving out. So they so they really did discharge and move on with their lives.

Sonia Nolan: 14:09

Language is so powerful, isn't it?

Janet Wagland: 14:11

Yes. Yeah, it was because I guess it was very clear that that's what our expectations were. And maybe we hadn't been clear enough before. But we certainly were by doing that.

Sonia Nolan: 14:20

And how many houses were there at that point?

Janet Wagland: 14:22

There were three houses.

Sonia Nolan: 14:24

This was the third house, the end house, and that was then the discharge.

Janet Wagland: 14:27

That's right. And I think it was even clearer because it was near the car park. So it's very much about away you go.

Sonia Nolan: 14:35

That's right we have the vehicle to take you from the premise.

Janet Wagland: 14:38

So then the first house we thought well, that's where all the new admissions should come into. So that meant that we had all the new people all together which meant they were learning more off us and from each other, rather than learning from people who were teaching them tricks that we didn't want them to learn. And people who were more midway through their journey moved to the second house So then, of course, we got to the stage where the new people were no longer new people. And the therapists and the nurses and the care workers started saying, you know, so what do we need now? How do we know when somebody is no longer new and, and move on to the next stage? So So moving on to the next stage was then about what have they achieved? So what criteria do they need to meet for us to then allow them to then move on and I guess graduate? The amazing staff that we had put together some graduation criteria, which very clearly articulated to people what physically they needed to be able to do what so what skills like showering, dressing, and also, the skills like being able to plan their day being able to manage their money, being able to start to access the community independently. So all those skills got built into a graduation structure. And we were then able to very clearly articulate to people what they needed to do to move to the next house,

Sonia Nolan: 16:04

and everyone needs goals, don't they, you know, to be really clear about what it is they need to do in order to move forward. So you know, there's there's just some very clever psychology in that,

Janet Wagland: 16:14

That's right. And we had a structure, as well of having this multidisciplinary team, which we then really worked hard to make them, I guess, more interdisciplinary, and to me, the definition between the two is the multidisciplinary team is, is much more a number of health professionals are working alongside of each other. Whereas the interdisciplinary team is much more than actually working connectedly, around what the around the goals that they're trying to achieve with with the clients. So we'd moved to a structure very much about client directed goals. So for instance, if we had someone called Sam and he wanted to go to TAFE. And he wanted to do that by public transport, to be able to achieve that skill was something that needed to be contributed to by everybody in the team, the physios to help him be able to travel on a moving vehicle and to walk to the station in the first place, the OTs about wayfinding, and which train to catch, the speech pathologist about how he purchased his ticket and being able to communicate that be able to socially communicate and be aware of all the social cues of everybody else on the train. So all of that that team needed to work together to achieve that outcome with Sam. So not only did we have this strong sort of graduation criteria structure, we also had a strong outcome based goal structure that was very much wrapped around the client's goals and the directions they were heading in. So the clients have always known from that point as to what it is they need to achieve to keep moving forward. So that enabled us to then support people to move from one house to the next house to the next house, and then ultimately back out into the community.

Sonia Nolan: 17:55

And that journey normally takes how long? I mean, I guess it's dependent on the person, but what sort of timeframe do people stay at Oats Street?

Janet Wagland: 18:03

in that old form, we would probably see people for about 12 months before they would move on and out. Now the journey is a bit more complicated, because we've got a much bigger site time that people are with us for is very much dependent on the complexity of their brain injury, their recovery rate, and also their social supports that are around them, the parts of their brain that are impacted. It's quite a complex journey. And for everyone, it's different. And it's really important that we recognise that difference.

Sonia Nolan: 18:34

And how many graduates have you had from Oats Street?

Janet Wagland: 18:38

Oh gee that was be as long as a piece of string. There would be hundreds who have been through.

Sonia Nolan: 18:47

What's really interesting in what you've just described a moment ago, Janet is this wraparound service, the speech pathologist working with the occupational therapist, working with the physiotherapist. And that to me, just sounds like what exactly should happen. And yet I know when we spoke sometime earlier a few weeks ago, you were saying to me, that's not always what happens in a clinical setting, that you don't always have all of those professional allied health professionals really communicating and understanding the goal and all working in their own, you know, mutually respectful ways to help achieve that goal. So can you tell us a little bit about that? Because that's staggering to me that

Janet Wagland: 19:27

Yeah, it's an interesting sort of quirk I that isn't normal? guess of the Health Professions and we tend to if you consider hospitals for instance, we tend to have the physio department and the OT department and the speech pathology department and you know, certainly they have teams that are you know, allocated to each of the wards and the units but they don't necessarily also always work together on on singular client goals. So they're often working on on what they need to achieve as an individual therapists, the nurses the same will be working on what they need to do from a health management point of view with the person. So even the teaching of, of therapists and nurses tends to be very much based on the disciplines. And there has been attempts to do some, some interdisciplinary type practices where, you know, you send a group of multiple different types of therapists to work together on their their practice students, but it's not common, it's not something that's really totally been rolled out in the training of all those therapists. So it's not natural and, and they can tend to work a little bit in in silos, which is a shame, because often it's that connection of the skills that that really leads to a better outcome for people, when they're not working together, you can sometimes lose the purpose for the client, you know, so are we just working on a splinter skill or a primary skill or, for instance, a primary skill such as walking, so if we can teach someone how to walk, but they actually have poor ability to cross the road, we can actually be making them more dangerous by not actually connecting the two skills together?

Sonia Nolan: 21:05

Of course, yeah, so you for so in that case, you'd have the physiotherapist and the occupational therapist working together for that full skill.

Janet Wagland: 21:14

That's right. So and then why are they crossing the road? I guess it's a bit like the chicken, isn't it? Why did it cross the road? Yeah. Because if you don't have a reason why then, in fact, by teaching someone to cross the road, then you can further compound the issue by them, not knowing where they're going and getting lost in the community going places where they really shouldn't be, and not actually having any purpose to what they're doing.

Sonia Nolan: 21:38

So then you need that communication element, which brings in your speech pathologist as well. That is, I'm just sort of trying to join the dots myself in this in this way. And so now there are at the eight houses that Oats Street.

Janet Wagland: 21:51

Yes. So Oats Street has eight houses. And it also has eight independent living units. We've just recently purchased three houses that are adjacent to the service. But then we have to start doing some consultation and consideration about ultimately, what do we do with that extra land that's connected to it? Do we build more of the same? Or do we build some stuff that really complements what we're already doing on the site? And can offer offer a broader service to more people?

Sonia Nolan: 22:21

Yeah. And I guess, do you take a step back and look at what's the next level of innovation for the for the organisation?

Janet Wagland: 22:27

Certainly, because really, you know, life has changed enormously for all of us, not only with with COVID. But for, for me in the space that I work in with the introduction of the NDIS and how it operates and its interconnection or sometimes clunky connection with the with the health system. So how do we actually create services that provide better outcomes for people in all those spaces? And how do we be innovative to come up with something that's a little bit different that really meets the gaps that we're now seeing?

Sonia Nolan: 22:59

Janet, we've talked about how innovative Oats Street is, you've had interest from all over the world about what you're doing here. Is that right?

Janet Wagland: 23:04

Well, we have and I think people are a little bit dubious when we describe ourselves here in little old Perth as having this innovative community based Brain Injury Rehabilitation Service. And they think, yeah, we do a bit of community rehab, and but then when they actually come out and see it. Yeah, they're very interested.

Sonia Nolan: 23:25

And has it been replicated anywhere else in the world at this point?

Janet Wagland: 23:28

No, it hasn't. It's been described. So we've described the model of course, in its in its entirety. But I think it's just because we came up with this model in that serendipitous way within graduated process, that people take a while to get their head around and even being able to describe a domestic scale environment. Often for people who are used to delivering rehab in a hospital don't quite get it.

Sonia Nolan: 23:59

I know that you have a very well sought after Student Placement Programme at Oats Street because there are these young up and coming OTs and speachies who and physios and psychologists all wanting to actually learn how to be part of that sort of team.

Janet Wagland: 24:15

Yes, and we've we've got close relationships with the Unis because of that. It's a different placement to them going to a hospital or, or even to a community environment. It's something that actually teaches a lot of skills about working together, which is really important, as we've just talked about, but it's also an environment that for many of the therapists, particularly the occupational therapists it really embodies everything that they see their career as being about. It has the complexity of working with people with neurological disability, which is not always everyone's thing because it is a complex space, but it's also a really rewarding space. And for many of those young students coming through when they can see the outcomes they can achieve with somebody who has complex brain injury that sort of tips them a bit into thinking, yeah, maybe this is what I'd like to be doing for the rest of my career. And that's really important that we can offer that

Sonia Nolan: 25:10

Your background is occupational therapy. Is that right, Janet?

Janet Wagland: 25:13

Yes.

Sonia Nolan: 25:13

So take us back to your early days in your early career.

Janet Wagland: 25:17

Yeah, I fell into it. So serendipity again, I actually wanted to do speech pathology. Because my mother actually was a school teacher who used to do some practice teaching or locum teaching for one of the local was called the St. George Crippled Children's School. So it was a school for children that had cerebral palsy, muscular dystrophy and other complex disability. And I would meet her there after school, sometimes on my way home, and I got to know some of the kids and, and as I got a bit older, I thought, yeah, I would really like to work in this and I was quite attracted to speech pathology. So I put that down as one of my preferences. Did my exams didn't do any study.

Sonia Nolan: 26:04

You know, that they go hand in hand. Yeah?

Janet Wagland: 26:07

Yeah, I kinda learnt that! Came out the other end, did get enough marks to go into occupational therapy, which I wasn't really sure what it was, What is this strange profession?

Sonia Nolan: 26:18

I think a lot of people are still a bit unsure about OT, they're not really sure what they do. But it's incredible what OTs do.

Janet Wagland: 26:24

Yeah, very interesting. And when I got into

Sonia Nolan: 26:24

Yeah, and I think it takes a really special kind it, then of course, I started to understand what we were provided as an occupational therapist, and one of my first student of person to be an occupational therapist. placements, while the first student placement, I actually went to St. Vincent's Hospital, which is in Darlinghurst, in Sydney, and, and did my very first home visit, which is a function of occupational therapists, down at Kings Cross, which was a real eye opener. It was a make or break kind of experience. So I learned very early on what occupational therapy was all about, and how complex it could be, and how very much it's a profession about the whole of the person's life. And, and the rewards that you get from enabling people to take back that life. So I thought, yeah, this is actually the thing for me. And it's taught me a lot, not only about working with individuals, but also about guiding programmes so that they are actually more suited to a larger group of individuals to achieve better outcomes.

Janet Wagland: 27:31

Yeah, I'd agree. We're not biased.

Sonia Nolan: 27:36

We're both a bit biassed. But I do think that you know, the work that the occupational therapists do, it really is taking back people's lives, as you've said, it's important. And that brings us right back to Oats Street and the work that you do there is really taking people's lives back for them.

Janet Wagland: 27:51

It certainly is and, and you know, that ability from the occupational therapists to be able to value the other disciplines and be able to work with them as well to, to pull them into helping out. And I often used to find as a young therapist that I was quite a pest, because I always thought I should be in the physio department, when somebody was up on the tilt table, why wouldn't I be doing my hand therapy, or whatever I was doing with the client at the time while they were actually with the physio? Why wouldn't I get the physio or the speechy to help out when I needed a hand with somebody? So I've never ever thought of occupational therapy as a sole profession, I've seen it as being part of a team and, you know, thought that that's how everybody worked. And I got a bit of a surprise on a few occasions, but but in my head, you know, that that's how I should be working. And it's enabled me to be able to translate that into the environments that I've been connected with, in particular Oats Street, which has been really rewarding because to me, Oats Street in the way that that highly skilled group of staff work together really for me emphasises that that is the way to work that we are a team and we all have different things to bring to the team and the centre of the team needs to be the client who's directing what they want, not what we want.

Sonia Nolan: 29:10

So clearly, over the years, you will have seen that discipline change and grow and I'd love to have your reflections on how occupational therapy has changed over these many years.

Janet Wagland: 29:22

Hugely. I mean, even when I started my occupational therapy training in the 70s there was still the kind of thinking and talk that you know, occupational therapy they were the basketweavers you know, we did leather work, you know, we did that kind of stuff with people. That's what it was about. And I think that had come a bit from the war years were that were occupation was very much about so somebody's got a disability now, so how do we occupy them or

Sonia Nolan: 29:48

keep them or keep them occupied?

Janet Wagland: 29:50

Yeah, so it'd be good basketweaving.

Sonia Nolan: 29:53

All right, fair enough.

Janet Wagland: 29:54

Now, I never learned to basketweave.

Sonia Nolan: 29:56

It's not a skill you have?

Janet Wagland: 29:58

No and even the leather worker wasn't that good. I wasn't too bad with the masonry drill, which to me, that was a far more practical tool of trade.

Sonia Nolan: 30:05

So is that what you actually learned at university? Yeah I did learn how to use a masonry. Did you learn the basket weaving? Good just clarifying!

Janet Wagland: 30:14

But I did actually do a couple of pracs where they were as a student practical placements where they were still doing a bit of origami and basketweaving and pottery. And, and certainly, you know, that those things are all great because

Sonia Nolan: 30:29

There's a place for that a bit more robust maybe in the way that it was

Janet Wagland: 30:30

that that's right. But it shouldn't be the whole of somebody's life. It's part of their life and part of their life interests. And really, if you translate occupational therapy into being that, what is it that that's important to the person? What new skills can they learn what new interests can they have, and those things may be part of that. But it can't be that it defines who they are totally. And it also can't be defining what the profession is about, because it's not, it's about the whole of the person and their lifestyle and the moving forward. When I first did occupational therapy, I think it was in the second year where it had become a science degree. Prior to that it was a diploma. And that was a whole new thing, because it meant we learnt about things like anatomy and neuro anatomy, and physiology and a bit of chemistry. So it became much more science based being thought through. Yes, yes. So it had lost that thing that nice girls do in my year group, there was still a number of girls who'd come in because the school that they came from, and their parents had encouraged them to do it, because it was a nice thing to do. You know, prior to get them getting married and having children or so a bit of that stuff we talked about earlier going on? Yes, yeah. And then when they got there, they found it actually really wasn't like that anymore. It was much more about getting your hands dirty in the hospital and supporting people to learn, you know, standing in a shower and being covered in talcum powder, while you can teach somebody how to shower and dress themselves, taking people, you know, out into the community in a wheelchair, doing home visits and Kings Cross, you know, all those

Sonia Nolan: 32:11

Not w hat nice girls are supposed to do

Janet Wagland: 32:13

No, that was not what nice girls did at all. So it's really evolved a lot. And I think over the years, it's also evolved into different spaces. So it's moved from being something that was traditionally much more around hospitals, to something that also does a lot of work in the community, there's been much more input of occupational therapy into school systems into spaces with children with disabilities, I guess, into things like prisons, any area of life, basically. So I think it's become a profession that has found more spaces to work in and found that it can actually produce good outcomes in all those many spaces. Vocational rehab, that's another area that that has a lot more occupational therapists in. I think it's also a profession, that, for me, personally, has really got a number of factors that sets you up for being able to do management, you know, that a lot of the skills I learned as an occupational therapist, you know, that whole ability to analyse what's happening for somebody. And how do you problem solve and put other measures in place? You know, that's, that's a skill that you really need as a manager as well. So it's taught me a lot of things that I use in management.

Sonia Nolan: 33:27

Yeah, I guess there's there's such an underlying emotional intelligence that is embedded in in an occupational therapists everyday role, isn't there? And that skill and that emotional intelligence has to be something that managers carry forward?

Janet Wagland: 33:40

That yes, exactly. And, and that understanding of the people that you're working with, across the board, and, and that everybody's a bit different. And for, you know, all of the staff that we're working with, there's different meanings in why they're actually doing what they're doing. So for good or for bad. Yeah. So

Sonia Nolan: 33:59

there's an empathy in there as well. There's all of those skills that are, look, I get so angry when people call them soft skills, I get really grumpy about it, because they are the critical skills of what we need to work together as people

Janet Wagland: 34:12

That's right. And then when you then start to think about service development, and which has enabled us to do a lot of our renovation. Now, what is it that I could do with a service that actually creates a better impact for a larger number of people? How do I change this so I'm, I'm creating better outcomes for more people with disability or with mental health issues, or, or whatever the target group is that we're working with. So it's a career that has supported me to think more broadly. To see things from a different angle, so not just always look at it from the same perspective. Take a different view on things because often you have to understand the person's view. And the end everybody's view is not is not the same. So how do I actually adapt my mind and to understand why they would be thinking in that way? Which then by learning to do that also makes me think in different ways about different problems.

Sonia Nolan: 35:12

So I'd like to take us back, Janet to your early life. I know we talked a bit about your early career, but going back to your early life, would you ever imagine that this is the work and life you would be leading now, when you were gathered around your table with your family at home growing up?

Janet Wagland: 35:29

I was always the out there child. So the challenging person in the family, I think it's the middle child.

Sonia Nolan: 35:37

middle child syndrome.

Janet Wagland: 35:41

So Mum was a school teacher. And Dad was a toolmaker, who ended up banding together with my my mother's father and her brother to set up their own business. Dad had come from a fairly difficult socio economic background. But, had a mother who I didn't meet, I didn't ever meet that grandmother. But she apparently was a pretty amazing lady who was quite artistic was good at sewing, which I'm not. Was good at music. So very, quite a talented person. And I think that gave him an understanding that women could do anything. And I guess the biggest thing that I took from my childhood, as you know, as I was growing up and going through high school was that there was never anything that I wanted to do that I wouldn't be able to do. And that was never even something that I consciously thought about. It was just an understood. So when I wanted to do a therapy, I didn't, you know, there was never any kind of challenge about what you want to do. Or girls should just go off and do nursing or do teaching or do something, whatever we wanted to do. My sister and I, we were encouraged to do that. And my my brother, of course, as well, but had a father who very much supported me to do whatever I wanted. And Mum, of course, well and truly in that corner that you know, women could could do what they wanted to do. So I had a strange sport that I took on as well. I became a competition rifle shooter.

Sonia Nolan: 37:08

Oh did you? tell us about that. Is that something you still do, Janet,

Janet Wagland: 37:15

um, not so much now. But it's taken me all over the world actually. rifle shooting. So our competition rifle shooting was being able to shoot over long distance with a single shot rifle. So long distances as in 1000 yards. So my grandfather, my mother's father was a competition shoot rifle shooter who's shot for New South Wales, and also for Australia. And he and he also did something that's called weather coaching. So of course, when you're shooting over long distances, you have to be able to read changes in the weather because of the impact it has on the bullet. Yes, the wind. So he was really skillful at that. So at about 13, I thought, yeah, this is something I wanted to do. He was in his 60s. So he must have thought, Oh, my goodness, I've suddenly inherited this 13 year old who is going to come down to an environment that we're all blokes there were very few ladies on rifle ranges, there was the odd ones that were usually pretty tough. But yeah, I got into rifle shooting and, and my husband and I met through rifle shooting. And we've travelled the world. And I did some wind coaching as well. I've coached for Australia, and for Western Australia, and I've shot for Western Australia. So it's been a really interesting journey. Certainly just like my my career, never any point in time did I think this is just something that blokes do, or it's something I can't do. It was something I could do

Sonia Nolan: 38:39

could do. And you had an interest and passion, and you just went for it.

Janet Wagland: 38:42

Yeah, that's right. But it's a good sport for learning to focus. Learning to understand the weather, of course, and the conditions that you're working in and understanding of people when you're when you're actually coaching a team of shooters, so reading the weather for them while they shoot. And making changes with those weather changes, you also have to understand the person that you're working with and, and be able to detect from changes from their shot patterns, they're a bit stressed, or what their common manifestation of, of getting a bit anxious during the shooting is. And so a bit of that, understanding people so connected, so that, so it gave me that connection between my career and my sport.

Sonia Nolan: 39:23

There's so many skills and life skills just within that with what you've just described,

Janet Wagland: 39:28

and huge opportunities to be able to use them. So I've been very lucky.

Sonia Nolan: 39:32

I've been so interested in hearing your story today. Janet, I thank you so much for your time, I really do appreciate you letting me have a little window into what happens at Oats Street and your journey in getting there. And that wonderful understanding of what an occupational therapist does in the world. So thank you so much for your time today and that innovation Janet and having a crack is what I'm going to be taking away from today. Thank you.

Janet Wagland: 39:59

Thank you Sonia.

Sonia Nolan: 40:05

You've been listening to My Warm Table with Sonia Nolan. In Italian, a tavola calda is a warm and welcoming table where you can share big ideas, friendship, laughter and life. So much happens around the kitchen table, and I wanted to amplify it here in this podcast. My aim is to feed your mind and soul through smart conversations with heart. No topic is off limits, but good table manners rule. I hope you'll join us each week because we set the table for my extraordinary guests who will let you feast on their deep knowledge, life experiences and wise insights. Let's keep the conversation flowing. Please subscribe to the My Warm Table podcast and share it with your friends and network. Perhaps if they're new to podcasting, take a moment to show them how to download and subscribe so they don't miss an episode either. I'd also love you to join our community on Facebook. You'll find the group at My Warm Table Podcast. Your support is very much appreciated - so that together we can eat, think and be merry.